Progymnasmata Curriculum

Hello,

I bought the book THE LATIN CENTERED CURRICULUM last summer. The part that I found the most interesting was the Progymnasmata. I have an 8th grader who is a very reluctant writer. She is a highly advanced reader but she just will not write and has a very low confidence in her writing ability. I don't know how to help her and the Progymnasmata seems like the medicine for her ailments.

I have thouroughly looked into the two suggested programs suggested in the book. Very recently Classical Writing has come out with an accelerated level that gets older beginners through the beginner levels and onto higher levels faster. I am very much interested in this program except that it includes lots of other stuff besides writing like grammar and spelling, etc..I feel as if she really needs to focus on the writing and learning the progymnasmata and I'm afraid this extra stuff will take up lots of time and crowd out the part she needs the most. I am also concerned that if/when she catches up, they won't have come out with the upper levels yet.

The Classical Composition looks promising, as it seems to focus on just the writing. The samples looked kind of vague, though, and I am not sure exactly how much in the way of teacher's helps are included. For example, the samples say to have the children outline the passage. It doesn't say if detailed instruction on how to teach the child to accurately write the outline are included or not. I have an email in to them inquiring but haven't heard back yet. I am concerned that this program might be too vague and for more experienced teachers who know how to do everything and need more of a bare-bones guide. I need more than that.

I am also interested in the Frank D'Angelo book and it says in Mr. Campbell's book that it can be used as a textbook for older kids. Again, I don't know how user-friendly this is. Does anyone know if it really can be used as a stand-alone or if it needs a supplementary program such as those above?

Unfortunately, we have recently found ourselves in a financial rut. The two programs recommended will cost us hundreds of dollars, because my child needs to start from the beginning and do everything in short order so she can catch up to where she should be at her age. The D'Angelo book I have found used online for more or less 50 dollars, which isn't cheap for one book, but it would be great if that was all I needed to teach her the whole thing, beginning to end.

I also have a rising 3rd grader and, again, I don't know which to use with him, either. I don't think I'll start him until next year or even the next after that. I am going to start him on Prima Latina and the Greek Alphabeterion as soon as we can afford those. The Classical Writing, again, includes grammar instruction. I am wondering with the Latin and then the Greek....how much grammar do the kids need? It seems as if it can get awful redundant after awhile.

One major problem as a homeschooling parent is buying curriculum that didn't work for one reason or another because I didn't know what it exactly was until I bought it. Until now, it wasn't that big of a deal, I'd just toss it or sell it and get something else. At this point, whichever route we take HAS to be what we need, because we simply cannot afford to turn around and replace it with something else.

I thank anyone who can help me sort out these options. I know lots of times it is just "personal preference" but I really need help because I don't know enough about each program or book to make an informed choice.

Thank you,
Kelli

Tough Call

Hi, Kelli,

Yes, this is a tough decision, particularly when one's budget isn't as elastic as one might like. (Voice of experience here!)

I don't know if this will help, but there are a couple of things to be aware of about D'Angelo's textbook. It's a college-level text, so not at all self-teaching - at least for a high-schooler. Some of the examples read like newspaper reports and are rather adult in nature. (Woman slugs boyfriend when she finds him with another woman; man accused of scalding toddler.) All in all, I wouldn't consider it the best choice for a reluctant writer.

I agree that, in your situation, the extra components of Classical Writing might bog your student down. Some folks do use the program without those components, however. You might post your questions to the CW boards and see what others suggest.

It does sound like CC might be the most obvious choice for you. It focuses on writing and takes the student through the process step-by-step. There is a Yahoo mailing list for CC users that is very helpful, and even if you're not yet 100% sure which curriculum you'll choose, the files and discussions there might help you decide.

None of this helps with the cost factor, I'm afraid, but you may be able to find at least some of the books used. I got a used set of CC binders at a deep discount on a sale-and-swap board some years ago - they are out there. Is there another family in the area with whom you might be able to share the books? Not ideal, perhaps, but whatever works!

Good luck!
-Drew

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"I wonder how far I shall carry any opinion with me when I plead for active effort to revive the general use of Latin?" - Hilaire Belloc
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Drew Campbell – Mon, 2007 – 01 – 15 10:18

outlines

Thank you, Drew!

Does the CC break the lessons down into small parts, like teach the child how to design the outline step by step or does it just say, "Outline the passage?"

Thank you ever so much,
Kelli

Kelli Castro – Mon, 2007 – 01 – 15 10:44

Students are expected

to outline the passage, but there is a worksheet with lines to fill in - a big help for beginners. Although the teacher instructions don't spell out the process in elaborate detail, I have no doubt that for the first half-dozen or more fables, the teacher will need to walk the student through the outlining process. That's one of the advantages of beginning with very short stories like fables: you can go through sentence by sentence and pull out the information. Having the worksheet also helps the student see if there's more information to be extracted, where to look for sub-points, and so on.

The process for studying each fable (or whatever) is broken down into a number of steps. In a classroom setting, each story would be studied over ten days. For some homeschoolers, that would be overkill; others may need to take things even slower, at least at the beginning. Also, Mr. Selby does suggest that once a student has mastered the material at a given level, you can safely go on to the next level, even if it means not completing every exercise in the book. I would expect that an older student, once she has built some confidence, could move through more than one level in a year. Even if she had to wait until 12th grade for Classical Rhetoric, she'd still be prepared for college or work-related writing tasks.

HTH!
-Drew

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"I wonder how far I shall carry any opinion with me when I plead for active effort to revive the general use of Latin?" - Hilaire Belloc
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Drew Campbell – Mon, 2007 – 01 – 15 20:27

Ok, wish us luck!

I just ordered the Fable Curriculum. I'm excited! I did join up with the CC yahoo group and plan to read through all their archives. So much to learn!

Thank you for all your help!

Kelli

Kelli Castro – Mon, 2007 – 01 – 15 23:44

You're very welcome!

Please let us know how it works out for you. :)

-Drew

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"I wonder how far I shall carry any opinion with me when I plead for active effort to revive the general use of Latin?" - Hilaire Belloc
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Drew Campbell – Tue, 2007 – 01 – 16 09:49